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Welcome to MBA Podcaster—the only source for cutting-edge information and advice on the MBA application process. Most of you probably consider getting an MBA after establishing a solid work history, but many top business schools are sending the message that a lengthy resume isn’t necessary. They say you can apply earlier—much, much earlier. How about just after one or two years on the job? What about applying in your senior year in college—or even your junior year? Top-rate business schools are showing a trend of admitting the youngest candidates. We’ll find out why that is and if you should consider applying earlier. We’ll hear from admissions committee members from Harvard and Wharton—two schools reaching out to the younger demographic. We’ll also hear from the Dean at The Olin School at Babson College where work experience is still highly valued, and a recruiter tells us what he thinks about these extra-young MBA grads.

The plan to admit younger, less-experienced students was sparked by a variety of reasons. The drop in applications to full-time MBA programs was one motivation. Some schools relaxed the work requirement to attract minorities and women. Brit Dewey is Managing Director of Admissions at Harvard Business School. She says Harvard admits based on academic ability and leadership potential, and some of these candidates show these qualities early on. “Our perspective is that, here at HBS, we have had a tradition going back decades of taking great folks earlier in there careers. But what had happened with the proliferation of MBA programs, and an increased competition to get into great schools, was this perception that more experience is better, and that the longer you wait the better position you are in to go to business school. So if you went to a college campus and said, ‘How many of you are thinking of graduate school?’ And you surveyed folks and said, ‘Okay, those of who are interested in law school, when are you guys going to go?’ Probably half of them thought about going right out of college. Certainly, I think the majority of folks going to medical school are going right out of college. But when you ask them, ‘When would you think of going to business school?’ What we frequently heard was: ‘Well, you can’t go to business school right out of college. There’s a work requirement.’ Or for whatever reasons— people sometimes couldn’t even explain but just said, ‘What we heard around the grapevine is that you should think about going to business school with X years of experience,’ which again, in our perspective, is not accurate. It’s not because of how long you’ve been out of school, or how long you’ve been on the planet; it’s about the quality of the experiences that you’ve had with the time that you’ve had. So through our evaluation and selection process, we’re really keenly focused on what you’ve done with your time as opposed to how long you’ve been working.”

Thomas Caleel is Director of MBA Admissions and Financial Aid of the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. He says since 1935, Wharton has been accepting sub-matriculates who are undergraduates who are accepted in their junior year and earn a Bachelor’s and MBA in five years. “As recently as the 1970’s, about over 40% of our incoming class came directly from undergrad.”

Caleel says, over time, the average age to go for an MBA drifted up to 28. He says, but business leaders in the community began to express concern for certain groups like underrepresented minorities and women where an MBA at 28 might interfere with career tracks or family plans. Caleel says, so Wharton decided to give the younger candidates a chance. “We came out this year with a very strongly-worded message that we were encouraging students coming in—what we call—our ‘Early-Career Initiative’ which is zero to four years of work experience—primarily, zero to two years of work experience. We’ve done presentations at historically black colleges and universities—top-tier universities in the United States—such as Princeton, University of Pennsylvania. We’ve reached out to various groups, for example, young women’s professional groups like 85 Broads. And we’ve said to them, ‘If the time is right for you, we would welcome your application.’”

Mark Rice is Dean of the Olin School of Business at Babson College. Unlike Wharton and Harvard, the Olin School has a two-year minimum work requirement. While Rice says he understands the trend toward younger students, the Olin School is still committed to the idea that some amount of work experience is important. “I often tell Babson undergraduate students that would like to come back for a Babson one-year MBA that they need to go get the work experience. And the reason is, if they don’t have it, they’re not having discussions about marketing, or about finance, or about operations or organizational issues in the MBA in a different way than they would be having them as an undergraduate. That is, marketing is still marketing; finance is still finance. The advantage of waiting until you have some work experience really comes into play in the level of discussion that occurs in the classroom. When your average number of years of work experience is five or six ranging from two to ten, then the discussions can be so much richer; particularly, the case discussions because people can say, ‘Well, here’s how it worked in my company, or here’s how it works in my industry.’ And the learning, therefore, is much richer than you would get in a sense in a pure academic classroom. But they may be learning a whole lot more from those people that have had three or four jobs when they’ve only had one. That doesn’t mean that their experience in the one job isn’t a valuable part of the discussion. They still can say, ‘In my company, or in my industry, this is how it works.’ So they bring value, but they clearly don’t have the depth of experience as someone who has eight or ten years of work experience.”

Caleel, on the other hand, says the extra-young MBA students can bring a fresh, different perspective. “They are eager to learn. They study very hard, and they do contribute to the discussion. It’s a different contribution than someone who can raise their hand and say, ‘Well, I’ve started three businesses,’ or ‘I ran sales for IBM in Beijing for two years.’ They bring an enthusiasm and a fresh perspective. And some of them also bring some interesting summer experience. So to me, it’s a component of diversity within the classroom. It’s a diversity of opinion; it’s a diversity of perspective. And they are integrated very well into our cohort system. Their opinions are valued. They are valuable members of the community. They actually do quite well. And also, life is changing. If you look at college graduates these days, they’ve done a lot more with their lives than college graduates may have done 10, 15 years ago. They are doing real internships. They’re traveling the world. They’re starting businesses while they’re in school. They’re building and leading organizations on campus. So these are our bright, focused, energetic students. They’re not spending their summer on the beach having fun which is a great way to spend the summer, by the way. But they’re actually doing things; they’re trying to make a difference. So why not bring them up and add that diverse opinion to the class?”

Harvard’s Brit Dewey says reaching out to younger candidates broadens and diversifies a class. But also, without a strict work requirement, she says they can catch outstanding undergraduates that they might otherwise miss. “They may be successful in their roles. Their employers see it; want to keep them progressing. So actually leaving all that, and then paying the cost of going to a full-time program where the value proposition is tougher to consider than it is earlier. And then also, we are as a school, very interested in increasing the pipeline of qualified women applying to Harvard Business School. Certainly for everybody—but I think as you’re considering your life’s chapters; life’s stages—it’s a little less complicated to think about a two-year, full-time investment in school earlier in your career. From a personal, professional perspective—if you’re thinking of a family, or of different kinds of career moves—then maybe after you’re five, six, seven, eight years out; you have some other issues to consider at the same time.”

Young MBA students are still few and far between. Last year Dewey says Harvard admitted about 20 students right out of college—more than most business schools. But, currently at Wharton, only one or two students are in the program with little or no formal work experience. And although Wharton wants that number to increase, Caleel says there won’t be any major changes. “There’s not going to be a wholesale shift of the curve here. This is a component of diversity. In two years, we will not be having a conversation saying: ‘Now that the average age at Wharton is 23 years old.....’ This is another component of diversity we’re looking to increase. There’s no set level we’re trying to increase it to. There’s no quota, but we’re trying to increase that representation. So, if we get a batch of outstanding applications, we’ll admit more. If we don’t have enough outstanding candidates to bring in in that cohort, that number will be lower that year.”

Certainly, these extra-young MBA applicants have to be extraordinary. Even though they may not have your typical work experience, they’ve gained experience nonetheless. Wharton’s Thomas Caleel: “If we have an applicant, for example, that’s maybe written a book and gotten that published. That’s tremendous experience. Could you classify that as work experience? Maybe, maybe not. Or maybe they’ve started an undergraduate woman-in-business organization and grown that to 600 people over in their time in undergrad. That’s real leadership. As in with all of our candidates, we’re looking for an ability to take a risk. We’re looking for people who are not afraid to do things they’re passionate about and really make a difference. So that’s why there is no formula. Is two years of investment banking critical? It depends on the person. Is two years in the Peace Corps advantageous? It depends on the person.”

Graduating without any real work experience does pose challenges in the job market. Most recruiters say they look for those with four to five years’ experience; preferably in their industries. The Olin School’s Mark Rice, says graduating young might jump start your career, but you’ll still need to work your way up. “We hear from recruiters that they understand when a person has an MBA, they have a reason to expect that they’ve learned what they need to learn in order to graduate. And then beyond that, through their due diligence, through their interview process, through their reference checking; what they determine is what else this person has to bring to the table. Years of experience count. So if you have less years of work experience, as an MBA graduate, you should expect to get a lower starting salary. If you have more years of work experience, chances are you’re going to get a higher starting salary. You may start out at a higher level in the organization if you have more years of work experience. If you come out of an MBA program at age 26 with only two years of work experience under your belt, sure you won’t be starting out at an entry-level job, but it won’t be much beyond that. The good news is that the marketplace understands very well that the person getting an MBA at age 22 or 24 is going to be very different from the person getting an MBA at age 35 or 40.”

While some recruiters would prefer experienced and mature MBA graduates, that’s not the case at this company. Robert Fuchs is Vice President of Human Resources at EchoStar Communications, a provider of satellite television. At EchoStar, he says young and energetic MBA graduates are just what the company likes. “It’s a very entrepreneurial, fast-paced company. And we are in one the biggest, competitive landscapes out there being Pay TV, video, and broadband—very competitive between DirecTV, our competition, as well as the cable providers. Today, there’s really not a training ground for people to come into our environment because we’re basically defining the industry as we go along and it continues to change and evolve. So really what we’re looking for is potential. We’re looking for people that have intelligence, a high need to achieve, and a lot of energy to help us compete, be innovative and help us to continue be a leader in the Pay TV market. And what we have found is that when we get a group of people like this hired and into our culture, they thrive and they really work collaboratively, and they are asking, ‘What if?’ and ‘Why?’ and ‘Let’s try this.’ And they’re typically pretty in tune to what’s going on out there that may be someone like myself who’s been doing this for a little while may not be in tune to anymore. So getting that young perspective has been very positive. Mind you, of course, we’ll hire anybody at all levels and experience levels. But, certainly, we’re not afraid to go after the MBA grad who, basically, does not have that experience.”

Taking a leap ahead by applying to business school earlier rather than later isn’t easy and isn’t for everyone. Rice says the ideal time to get an MBA really depends on you. “For the person who has really plotted out their life path and has a clear idea of when they’re going to want to have children, or when they’re going to want to be in a different kind of work mode as opposed to a full-time, professional mode, then you can start to say, ‘Well, for me when’s the best time to get an MBA?’ And also ask the question: ‘Should I get an MBA on a full-time basis or should I get an MBA on a part-time basis?’”

It may make sense for some of you to get on the MBA track early on, but don’t expect any slack from the admission’s committee. Harvard’s Brit Dewey, says the extra-young candidates will have to meet the same standards as the older ones. “The two things we’re looking for in our process are academic ability, and in that way, someone applying right out of a college is no different from someone applying four years out. We’re going to try to assess your undergraduate transcript, how well you’ve done on the GMAT; kind of the rigor, the analytical, the intellectual, the quantitative rigor of your work. Obviously, with people who’ve been out in the work force, we think about what you’ve been doing on the job in a way that we don’t have that chance with the college senior. But they’ve had several internships and then we’re looking for leadership potential. So for the person who’s been working for a while or for the person who’s applying right out of college, the board starts considering from the time you set foot on an undergraduate campus: What options have you had? What opportunities have you pursued and why? What experiences have you had—either in formal roles or informal roles as a leader? What have you done? What have you learned from these experiences? Frankly, we have to relatively gauge the opportunities that a college senior has had as opposed to what a ten-year-out person has had. But what we’re looking for is potential.”

For more information, advice, and to register for your weekly MBA Podcast, visit mbapodcaster.com. This is MBA Podcaster. Thanks for listening and join us next time when we talk about international students applying to U.S. business schools.