Download From the Military to an MBA Part II Podcast 9.79 MB 28:16 Min

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Diana Jordan:Welcome to MBA Podcaster, the only source for cutting edge information and advice on the MBA application process.It is not necessarily an easy transition from the battlefield to the campus to the boardroom.

Military leaders, with their sense of responsibility and strategic thinking are often naturally driven to get their MBA to develop their technical, business, and managerial skills to prepare for the move into corporate life.

In this show, Military MBA:  From the Military to Corporate America:  Fitting In, you will get advice and information from more than a dozen deans, soldiers, students, and experts.

In our companion show, Military MBA:  From the Military to Corporate America:  Getting In, also available at MBAPodcaster.com, you will hear about the military-friendly schools, how to find available benefits.You'll learn about the resources and the challenges.

Among our experts, Melissa Knueven, who was with GMAC, the Graduate Management Admission Council.

Melissa Knueven:Whether you're transitioning out of the military into corporate life or staying in career military, the MBA, combined with that experience, just makes these people really forces to be reckoned with.

Diana Jordan:And you'll hear from Ethan Hanabury, Senior Associate Dean for Degree Programs at Columbia Business School.

Ethan Hanabury:They tend to have an approach of looking at this as something that they want to give as much as they get, which is something that we all appreciate.

Diana Jordan:Tremain Wheatley is an Air Force veteran, now on his second year at Darden School of Business.

Tremain Wheatley:Once you combine the leadership and management experience as a military member with the formal business training that you get out of an MBA program, that person is a powerful and valuable resource for corporations.

Diana Jordan:The military—already leaders, responsible, and trained to think strategically, can enhance their marketability in corporate life by getting an MBA to develop their technical, business, and managerial skills.

While this training and these attributes open up a world of career opportunities, there is a lot more to this journey than just getting in.  In our opening section, we will hear how planning and flexibility are necessary in equal measure, and how military personnel can be keyed into the nuances of whether or not a school will be a good fit.Adam Kurland, a captain in the army, is in his second year at Columbia Business School.

Adam, what should military personnel keep in mind when applying?

Adam Kurland:The first thing that they should keep in mind is that it's a new world and that they don't know anything about the application process or about business schools.So, what you have to do is take your ego, you know, bundle it up, put it in a box, and pack it away, and as for help from people that actually know what it is that they're talking about.

In truth, I've seen a lot military applicants get, you know, sort of tripped up because we, in general, are confident that we can handle anything and don't need a lot of preparation.  But in this instance, it's not necessarily the case.

As far as applying at business schools, it's always important to apply as early as possible.  So, I think no matter what the admissions committees say, the better off you are.Additionally, there are very specific things they look for in the essays and in the recommendations that aren't intuitive.

So, anybody leaving the military that's considering going to business school should reach out as early and as often as possible in order to get good, targeted advice.

Diana Jordan:Mike Nemeth, army, a second year MBA at Ohio State, he is also Ohio State's military student of Master.

Mike, what pitfalls do you watch for?

Mike Nemeth:I watched out for schools where I mentioned my background and they didn't ask any following questions or help me find veterans in the program.  I think that's easier now, with tools like LinkedIn, to find current students.But again, if the application committee themselves doesn't understand the experiences that you've had, it can be a challenge.

Diana Jordan:Reggie Webb is the Director of Signature Projects at Darden Business School.

Reggie, what if military applicants don't have a business or finance background at all?

Reggie Webb:Even if you don't have a business background or a finance background, the corporate world is really looking for leaders with a strong ethical base.  You know, the person is as important as the business experience.

Anecdotally, I'll tell you this—last year, we placed five military graduates with top finance firms, and none of them had experience in those arenas.Not only that, they didn't major in economics or business as undergrads.

So, I'd say don't worry about your background.  You've led people, and that's the key.

Diana Jordan:John McNamara was in the Marine Corpse for seven years.  He went to Darden, and now is an analyst at 3M.

John, what did you not understand as you embarked on this journey?

John McNamara:I thought if I went to a regional school, then I'd get a job in the area, and that's not really the case.The other thing to look at is I felt like going to school in an MBA would help figure out what exactly I want to do.And I really wish I had done more upfront work to try and figure out what I wanted to do after business school.If you can select a group of companies that you really wan to work for, different companies have core schools that they go to.And if the company you want to go to does not have your school as a core school, it's difficult to impossible to get into that company.

So, knowing in advance that these are the general companies that I'm looking at and they do recruit at this school is really important in selecting a school.And I guess, the other thing, I would definitely take a GMAT prep course of some sort.  We haven't done anything academic in so long that going through a formalized course of some sort can really help you out.

Diana Jordan:Terry Howell is Managing Editor for Military.com, plus he's retired coastguard.

Terry, what should military MBA applicants keep in mind when applying to schools?

Terry Howell:Flexibility is one of the biggest issues.Secondly would be the cost.Military members on active duty have a certain amount of money they set aside for them, so to speak, each year for them to take college courses.

For most people, that's capped at about $4500 per year.  So, they would have to actually come up with some of the difference themselves.Those who are eligible for the (inaudible) Bill can use it while they're on active duty or when they get out.And they need to find a school that understands how those benefits work, and can help them best use those benefits and apply them to get the most bang for the buck.

I think that for most military students, the thing to really look for, though, is how flexible the program's going to be and what the requirements are through the week depending on how many papers you have to write and the level of rigor.

Diana Jordan:So, Terry, what pitfalls and perks should military watch for?

Terry Howell:The first pitfall would be just to do their homework—due diligence, so to speak.  To make sure that they find the right program that fits them, that fits their needs, and can be worked around their schedule.

It's really difficult to get into a program, and then find out too late that it doesn't work.Because if they drop out of a class, they have to reimburse the VA or the Department of Defense for whatever classes they're taken that they didn't complete.

As far as perks are added value for the active-duty military members, it's an incredibly complex support system.  It essentially helps them if they're trying to get their Associates all the way through their Master's Degree.  They may not always be able to get the exact kind of help they need at the upper levels, but by the time they get to the Master's, and possibly, PhD post-grad kind of work, they don't need as much handholding.But they actually have dedicated professionals in each of the services who guide people through the processes.They have the opportunity to take their GMAT or other online course equivalency kind of test for free while they're on active duty.

And veterans have that ability through the VA.  So, there's a lot of added small thing that tend to add up.Ability to use professional experiences in the military towards college credit and all part of a complex and rich program that really helps them get their education.

Diana Jordan:Navy Commander Lee Forsythe is now an analyst at Yum Brands, who attended Katz Business School at the University of Pittsburg.

Lee, what advice do you have for anyone in the military?

Lee Forsythe:Plan early and plan often.And then, when things change or you think they're about to change, make adjustments based on that and keep your communication open to the schools that you're looking at.  People are very receptive, and if you explain it to them, they definitely understand that.

Diana Jordan:Lt Col Mike Moose is Public Affairs Officer for US Army Human Resources Command.  What advice do you have?

Lt Col Mike Moose:  Utilize their army educations centers as much as possible.Whether they're going to stay in the military or transition to civilian life, those army education centers are there to help them.

Diana Jordan:Mike at Ohio State, are there funding sources available just for military candidates if they remain on active duty after graduation?

Mike Nemeth:If I may captain with six or seven years of experience and I've asked the military to consider me for an MBA program, I sort of owe them a few extra years once I'm done with the program, but that also means that they will pay for the program for me.That's a great opportunity for any active duty soldier who wants to continue his education.

Diana Jordan:The military have a natural affinity for corporate life.  However, the transition can be troubled by the unique adjustments that must be made.  We'll explore both the benefits and the challenges.

Senior Associate Dean for Degree Programs at Columbia Business School, Ethan Hanabury, says the MBA school is a great fit for military.

Ethan Hanabury:Military tend to be very career-focused.And what the MBA provides for them is the basic knowledge—accounting, strategy, marketing, finance, management in our core curriculum, that helps them to transition their leadership skills that they acquired in the military to a business context.

Diana Jordan:Navy Commander Lee Forsythe is an analyst at Yum Brands, who attended the Joseph M.  Katz Graduate School of Business at the University of Pittsburg.

Lee, what advantages do military personnel bring to MBA schools?

Lee Forsythe:I learned that we're actually very good at just managing people in general, and projects, and just about anything.And we started at a very young age.So, when it comes to being placed back into an MBA situation, the items that we discussed during class and all the different backgrounds and different types of folks that we have in the programs were able to very quickly assess what's going on.

And, probably, most importantly, we're able to give back to the rest of the students in the class based on the experience that we have from a really strong management background.

Diana Jordan:Adam Kurland, a captain in the army, is in his second year at Columbia Business School.

Adam, what has your transition been like from the military to business?

Adam Kurland:One of the things that I was glad to see was that the skills that we learned in the military, the ability to be a leader, and to manage, and to know how to handle stressful situations not just effectively translates into the corporate world, but is appreciated bya lot of people in the corporate world.

That said, there's also been a disappointment in the fact that I feel like a lot of organizations don't truly understand how our experiences have shaped us.A lot of guys now especially are returning from extended deployments.

So, the critical points in our lives, we're fighting.  And that shapes the way you interact with people.It shapes the way that you give and expect to receive feedback.And I think certain companies aren't fully aware of that.  So, they know what our strengths are but they don't know what kind of adjustments we have to make.

Diana Jordan:Air Force Veteran Tremain Wheatley was an intelligence officer, and is in his second year at Darden School of Business.

Tre, how are you making the transition from the military to business?

Tremain Wheatley:A lot of military guys could get hired to business roles, and they do everyday.  But the one thing that I was really looking for was a way to really expand my skill set to create a good foundation in terms of fundamental business knowledge that I could then use to make a career transition.

Diana Jordan:Lt Col Mike Moose is Public Affairs Officer for the US Army Human Resources Command.

Sir, you're on active duty, on leave from your career at Radio Shack.What was the transition like for you from military to MBA?

Lt Col Mike Moose:  I, of course, already had an undergraduate degree in business.And I had five years experience in the army.And so, my MBA, which was on the GI Bill allowed me to use all of those experiences and build upon them, and go to that next level, the Master's Degree, which certainly, you know, helped me down the road.

It helps you blend everything together that you've learned in life, both educationally and in private life, military, as well, and use those experiences as you pursue your Master's Degree in Business.

Diana Jordan:Once military personnel hit campus, it takes adjustment to fit in.  Uniforms give way to clothes shopping, military haircuts to styling, active duty to dorm rooms.

Let's hear from the military on the social aspect, and from the MBA schools on how they assist that transition.  Lee, you're now an analyst, but what was it like for you to transition from the marines to the business school campus?

Lee Forsythe:Military, you know, you've got your network whether it's a squadron or any other type of unit.And I was a little worried about this, but when I got to graduate school, I realized that, "You know what?  It's the same situation."  It's very, very similar to the military.

Diana Jordan:Now, Reggie, how do military MBA students make the adjustment to campus at Darden Business School?

Reggie Webb:Transition from the battlefield to the classroom, it does take adjustment.  I think most schools you'll find offer some pre-matriculation courses or tune-ups for the academic year where you can come, like, two or three weeks before school actually begins.

For example, they may offer advanced classes in Excel or some basic accounting review.I would urge everyone to take advantage of that, definitely.

Diana Jordan:Dean Hanabury at Columbia, how does the transition usually go for military personnel when they hit campus?

Ethan Hanabury:In the learning teams, they, in a sense, take turns being the leader.  And sometimes, for a military person who's used to always leading, that can be a transition for them, learning how to take the backseat when necessary.

And military students are also used to a structured life, where life on campus can tend to be unstructured.  So, sometimes, that can be difficult at first.  I think a real advantage in making the transition is that we find that military students tend to have an easier time organizing and structuring their schoolwork and their job search and keeping to deadlines.They tend to be very focused and very achievement-oriented.

Diana Jordan:Adam, you were a captain in the army, and now, you're second year business student at Columbia, how are your priorities different from those typical students on campus?

Adam Kurland:You'll see (inaudible) students stressing out over exams or recruiting events.  And in truth, we look at it as not that bad.  We just have (inaudible) time management skills.And it's easy to get a little bit frustrated when you see people who seem to have just kind of a misplaced sense of priority.

And in truth, I think it's also a big societal change.  You know, coming from a military base in small town somewhere to a big city which is where a lot of business schools are.  It can be, you know, quite an adjustment.  You know, just knowing how to navigate, how to dress, and some of the most (inaudible) like knowing how to act at recruiting events isn't at all intuitive.

There's a lot of – and forgive my language, a lot of butt-kissing, which is something that we're not used to.  So, it's important just like in the application process to seek out guys that have gone through it.  For first years, it can be second years.  You learn a lot, you know, with also military alumni.And that just makes the adjustment a lot easier if not necessarily easy.

Diana Jordan:Mike at Ohio State, you deliberately reached out to other veterans.What did you learn from them?

Mike Moose:The two that I got in touch with were both WestPoint grads like myself.  And to hear their stories about completely switching into marketing was important to me.  I was a bit worried that most of the military careers after an MBA program were limited to finance and operations.  And to see that Ohio State helped them build a curriculum that brought in, you know, their interest, not just sort of fit into a box, made me a little bit more comfortable picking a school not where I was originally from.  I was living at New York City at that time.  So, to make the trip back to Ohio, I want to make sure I was going to the right school.

Diana Jordan:How did you make the adjustment to Darden's campus from the marines, John?

John McNamara:I got a place – I lived around like a dorm-like facility where a bunch of my classmates were going to be in.And I got a roommate also who wasn't in the military.  And the, I made sure that any kind of social events that all MBA schools spend a lot of time hosting and organizing for people, I made sure that I went to as many of those as possible.

And during all this, I consciously made an effort to not just go to my comfort zone and just hang out with people with military backgrounds, and make sure that, again, as I said, the networking piece is so vital that I jumped around and tried to get to know as many people as possible while I was there.

Diana Jordan:Dean Hanabury, what resources does Columbia students who are in the MBA program?

Ethan Hanabury:We can't possibley understand what they have gone through.  And, obviously, this is a big transition, having just served, many of them in active duty, and then coming to school.

So, what we tried to do is be as sensitive to it as possible, to understand that this may be a challenging transition.  And we try to be as available as we can be to talk to military students and to help them negotiate making what is a big transition.

Diana Jordan:Barry, how do military MBA students adjust to life on campus at MIT Sloan?

Barry Reckley:Sloan has a veterans club, a veterans association.  And (inaudible) have veterans/clubs organizations that they focus in on, who help as far as the transition is concerned.

Diana Jordan:How did you make the adjustment from the Air Force to the Darden campus, Tre?

Tremain Wheatley:The real best resources are going to be those second year students, for examples.  So, quite a few people coming back to school, this was their first time ever not wearing a uniform.

So, even just understanding do I have to wear a suite?  I mean, where is a good place, maybe, in town that you can find this stuff?What's normal?I had never really done a lot of interviewing before because doing ROTC, that's kind of automatic when you graduate.You're going to go to service.

It's relying on those students who have been there for at least a year, who kind of really can understand and can point you in the right direction in a lot of things.And that's really the power of having a dedicated veterans group within the student population to really help veterans who, you know, in some ways are a little bit different from maybe some of their classmates who have strictly civilian backgrounds to really make that transition because for a lot of people, this is their first experience in the real civilian world, if you will, after coming out of the military.

Diana Jordan:Mike, how can military personnel make that adjustment?

Mike Nemeth:For bigger universities, many of them, like Ohio State, offer free counseling to veterans through their own Department of (Errands Affairs).  And then, there's also, of course, the Federal Veterans Administration, and they offer plenty of counseling services, as well, to help ease that adjustment.

Diana Jordan:There's another challenge that military personnel are aware of—the very real eventuality that they could be deployed at any time during their MBA studies.  This disruption can be handled in a number of different way, but the advice is to know how that school operates before you decide to go there.

Barry, what will happen if a student is deployed at some time during their MBA studies at MIT Sloan?

Barry Reckley:That has happened to us a couple of times.And our Student Affairs office has been extremely helpful in making that transition take place as smooth as possible.In other words, the student leaves Sloan, goes back to active duty, finishes his or her requirement as far as active duty or deployment, and come back into the mix as the prospective students.

That's not an issue as far as Sloan is concerned.

Diana Jordan:Tre, you're an Air Force veteran and second year at Darden.  What happens if a student's deployed or school plans are somehow jumbled?

Tremain Wheatley:One student who's now a first year was actually applied in the same year that I did.  The navy decided not to let him out of the service when he expected.And so, Darden was very good about allowing him to defer his application status.  And so, he actually just started this fall with a new class.

Diana Jordan:Mike, what happens if MBA students are deployed during their studies?

Mike Nemeth:I have one friend at MIT who unfortunately had to deploy in the middle of his studies.  And he was able to stay in touch with his MBA classmates.And MIT did a great job of helping him communicate with the rest of his class while he was deployed.  And they actually even worked on a few projects together remotely.

Diana Jordan:Reggie, what happens if a student is deployed during her time at Darden?

Reggie Webb:It's happened recently.And what we do, we'll make any accommodation necessary to their return to complete the program.  Now, as far as distance learning, some schools will offer some distance learning opportunities.  And we're in the process of looking at that now.

Diana Jordan:Networking in the military is not respected, but in corporate life, networking is the key to success.Military personnel can learn to fit in through networking.There are websites that can help—veterans clubs, on campus military groups, and recruiters even search out military.Military connections are golden.

Reggie, what resources does Darden have for military students?

Reggie Webb:  We have one dedicated person in admissions that focuses on recruitment military personnel.There's obviously an admissions website that's dedicated to that.

We have military-specific scholarships.  We're a participant in the Yellow Ribbon Program.Again, that's additive to the post-9/11 GI bill.We have the Darden Military Association.I'm sure all schools have a strong student group.

We have a strong alumni base.  We have executive education, relationships with the navy and the air force.So, there's just the whole fabric of the place.

Diana Jordan:What kinds of networks exist for military?Adam at Columbia, I understand there are formal and informal.

Adam Kurland:There are social sites.(Myvetwork) is one that I'm kind of familiar with.I think anyone doing a Google search can find just a couple of sites that are specifically targeted towards military job applicants.

A lot of the big investment banks and some of the consulting firms have people specifically designated as in charge of reaching out to military associations at business schools.  So, there have been a couple events of banks held this year, and they've only invited military at the schools around New York.  So, those are kind of the formal processes.

And then, as far as informal processes go, it's just always good to ask company HR people if there's a list of military veterans at the organization.And then, just reaching out through the people that you know and, you know, making phone calls.  Ask them to sit down and have a beer or two with someone.And that's probably been the most effective thing for me, just sitting down and talking to people informally.

Diana Jordan:John, you've been a marine at Darden, and now, you're in the business world.  What was it about networking?

John McNamara:In the military "networking" isn't something that we do and is almost frowned upon.And I've found, for me, and especially from my other peers that were in the military, it was one of the hardest things for us to get comfortable with.  And it's something that you just have to break yourself of and kind of get used to if you really want to excel going into it.

Diana Jordan:Mike, you say that the intent of the program at Ohio State where you're military MBA Student of Master, is to actively recruit veterans to apply and to support them once they're there.What does that look like?

Mike Moose:Our Veterans Club here has great social opportunities for the veterans in the program to get to know one another.But it's also a great conduit information to the community here for some more important things for the community, and that is in finding jobs.

So, when companies come along, they're actively looking to hire veterans who also are MBA students.  That's how they communicate with our students here.

Diana Jordan:Barry, you're at MIT Sloan.Is the process for applying for corporate jobs different for military MBAs?

Barry Reckley:They will stand out.And many of the recruiters will see that once they've submitted resumes and have conversations with prospective candidates.But as far as the process is concerned, they should continue on just like a regular VA.

But recruiters may contact directly with organizations or clubs like the Veterans Association and try to search out prospective candidates via that method.

Diana Jordan:John, you're an analyst at 3M, a marine, and a graduate of Darden.  How should you leverage your military connections?

John McNamara:They should reach out and go to their school alumni base that have a military background, their undergrad's alumni base that have a military background, and reach out to them as much as possible.And not ask for a job, but just ask for information.  And it's amazing how many times that these unlikely places are interviews or questionnaires that you have with someone lead to a job that you just wouldn't expect any other way.

Diana Jordan:When applying for jobs, how is the military resume helpful, Terry?

Terry Howell:They definitely would not have a single employment reflected in their resume.  They can reflect every unit they've been to, and the different jobs that they had within that unit because the military's kind of a fluid environment.And the longer you stay in, the more experience in the different tasks and different job levels come up.All of that becomes great resume fodder.

Diana Jordan:Dean Hanabury, what kind of networks exists for military MBAs?

Ethan Hanabury:One of the best networks is the network of alumni that we have.  We count over 500 alumni self-identified as veterans, who are open to being contacted by current students.

Diana Jordan:You're at Columbia, Adam.What's your view about networking?

Adam Kurland:We have our own built and fairly established network.  So, in addition to the events at the school or industry organizations may sponsor, it's, you know, critical for us to reach out individually to veterans at our targeted companies.And I think as far as networking goes, that's where the most valuable networking actually comes in.

Diana Jordan:Mike, what sort of networks exist for military MBAs to network and recruit?

Mike Nemeth:There are some that are some that are specifically for that purpose such as MBA Veterans.Many of us, though, also have our own existing networks from the military.  The service academy ones are particularly strong.  ROTC alumni groups, as well.  And those feed into the veterans that are at major corporations all across the country.  So, that's really such a fantastic way to get in touch with someone at a company that you're interested in working at.  And it can really make a difference to help you make the best decision.

Diana Jordan:Networking and recruiting aside, there are ideas from military personnel that can guide other military to the perfect job in the corporate world.  John, how should you apply to jobs?

John McNamara:The best thing that you can do is spread as big a net as possible because it's more and more a crapshoot in my mind.The right person reading your interview or the right person sitting down and interviewing you, if you connect with that person or if there is just something in your background that makes you stick out, you can never tell.

Diana Jordan:Lee, you're now an analyst.You've been in the marines and you've got your MBA from Katz School of Business.  What's your overall advice?

Lee Forsythe:When you're thinking about your MBA program, when you're thinking about, "What do I want to study?Or what direction do I want to go whether it's finance or IT," think about rather than that first job that you're going to get straight out of grad school.  Think about the third one.  That's the one that you want to key in on.  "Where am I going to be five years after school or 10 years after school?"  Because that's where the advanced degrees are going to pay off.

Diana Jordan:Adam, what advice do you have?

Adam Kurland:It's important to reach out as early and as often as possible.  You know one of the most pleasant surprises I've had not just before applying the business school, but now even at the job search process, has been in how receptive veterans have been.  Traditionally, if you send out just 10 emails just to general people asking for help, you might get back two or three responses.Well, the hit rate for when I ask for help from fellow veterans is probably approaching 100 percent.

So, anybody thinking of applying to business school should know that, you know, not only are their questions welcome, but they're encouraged.We all want t help out guys that are still on the service.And I would highly encourage them to take advantage of that.

Diana Jordan:Reggie, what other advice do you have for military MBA applicants?

Reggie Webb:Don't have any self doubt.You have all the skills.You've been there.  You've led.  You have what it takes to be successful in any arena.  And just coupling your experience with an MBA gives you a toolset that's unparalleled.

Diana Jordan:And Lee, what was the adjustment like for you from the military to the campus to the boardroom?

Lee Forsythe:It's being achievement-oriented.It is being aggressive in a good sense.It's being driven and accomplishment-oriented, those sorts of things.  It paid off during school.  It's paying off now in my civilian life.  And regardless of what you do in the military, I don't think it's fighter pilot-specific.  I think that anybody coming from the military tend to have those characteristics.It's just what you do when you wake up in the morning.  You go through your day with that sort of a mindset.And it plays very nicely.  You're going to need that once you get into an MBA program.And then, of course, once you get back out in the civilian world, if that's what you choose to do, you need that, too.And it makes you excel.

Diana Jordan:For more information, a transcript of this show, or to register for your weekly MBA Podcast, visit MBAPodcaster.com, join us on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube to get the latest news and insight in the world of business school.  This is MBA Podcaster.  I'm Diana Jordan.  Thanks for listening, and stay tuned next time when we explore another topic of interest in your quest for an MBA.